Doug Camplejohn
(00:01)
Hello everyone, this is Doug Camplejohn, founder and CEO of Coffee. In this week of Revenue Renegades, I’m very excited to welcome Andy Mowat. Andy is a multiple-time CEO, several-time head of revenue operations and operational functions for unicorn companies, an active investor, and an opinionated, all-around good dude. Welcome, Andy.
Andy Mowat
(00:29)
Thanks, Doug. I’ve enjoyed our chats for many years.
Doug Camplejohn
(00:32)
I want to start by hearing founding stories. You recently announced that you were leaving Carta and starting a new venture with Whisper. Tell us a little about that founding story.
Andy Mowat
(00:47)
I wrote an article about it. In my life, I’ve raised my head four times to figure out the next step, feeling both excitement and intimidation. Even with a solid background, the career path can be bumpy and uncertain. After working for several years, you lose touch with what companies are trending, recruiters move on, and talent partners change. Moreover, many jobs are unposted. Whisper’s philosophy is that your next senior role won’t be posted; it’ll be whispered. Two years ago, I asked my friends about the spreadsheets they built when speaking with companies. They shared their tools, and I began building a platform to help executives navigate these pivotal career moments. My background doesn’t tell a complete story. Carta was a fantastic run. They hired many former founders, and I had a fun time, but my heart was in Whisper.
Doug Camplejohn
(02:19)
That sounds great. As a fellow entrepreneur, I’m excited to watch your new journey unfold. Today, I want to discuss the intersection of sales, rev ops, and AI. At Carta, you were involved in many roles at companies like Culture Amp, Box, and Upwork. In the last year, you’ve had many vendors interested. When you joined Carta, how did you assess the situation and set priorities?
Andy Mowat
(03:02)
I believe in a solid work structure. The CEO spent time working with HR to establish the organization. My team was assembled from nine different groups. I recognized that Tom, the CEO, understood the importance of my role. I focused on whether the leaders for each function could define and solve their problems. I asked my team about the issues they faced. I recall one leader outlining three major problems that, in my view, were critical to fix. I prioritized assessing talent and guiding the company to better decisions.
I noticed tools that had been bought but were never implemented—clearly broken investments. I quickly established a process to prioritize across the entire go-to-market plan. Tom made sure everyone understood that I would drive these tooling decisions. I encouraged our leaders to bring their challenges to us, promising a solution much faster than before. In marketing, I focused on measurement metrics and flow, working with a strong marketing operations team, even during transitions between CMOs.
I also worked to win the confidence of all stakeholders. I made a difficult call on one leader who wasn’t meeting expectations. I recognized early when someone’s performance wouldn’t improve, and I replaced that person to improve the overall function. It’s something I’ve done repeatedly in my career.
Doug Camplejohn
(05:59)
I’ve noticed that during interviews, you quickly sense if someone might not be a good fit. In my experience, a 90-day review helps identify if a hire is working out.
Andy Mowat
(06:40)
I schedule daily meetings with new hires for their first three weeks. By the fourth meeting, it’s clear if the hire is a good match. I set expectations early so that if issues arise, we address them immediately. For one leader I retained on a trial basis for 60 days, the results confirmed that a change was necessary. This not only helps the company but also serves the employee in the long run.
When discussing early feedback, I explain my communication and evaluation process. Even if someone is a keeper, we need to address mismatches in work style early. It’s about maintaining honest, continuous feedback.
Doug Camplejohn
(08:06)
The people and their alignment are always the priority. Tell me how you evaluated the organization’s needs and the technology stack when you joined.
Andy Mowat
(08:29)
There was a clear pattern from my experience. Without divulging specifics, I saw clear quick wins on the marketing side, especially due to turnover in leadership. I temporarily led a couple of teams until the new CMO arrived. In sales, the leadership was strong but lacked in enablement. I quickly identified these gaps and leveraged the existing GTM systems where they were solid, then enhanced the data side, particularly regarding targeting. We were spending a million dollars a year on data from PitchBook, Prequin, ZoomInfo, and more—yet we needed better integration. I worked closely with the operations team to address these issues and to negotiate improvements with vendors.
They made decisions separately on people and software, so I streamlined the process. I ensured that if a problem was brought to us, we could resolve it quickly—often 10 times faster than before. I also overhauled our weekly metrics deck, making sure key indicators like pipeline coverage were clearly defined. For instance, I introduced pipeline coverage metrics that were previously misunderstood at Carta. I emphasized consistency and clarity in metrics, which is critical to our success.
It’s essential to have a weekly review and ensure data fluency among all stakeholders.
Doug Camplejohn
(12:47)
With so much change in the go-to-market world and new players emerging, what trends do you believe are significant, and which are overhyped?
Andy Mowat
(13:02)
I’m done talking to AI agent companies. Many can’t even define what an agent is. Two-thirds of these companies aren’t truly agents; many are just adding bolt-on features. The big vendors will eventually catch up. While there’s some innovative work, much of it is superficial and might achieve about 80% quality—a decent effort, but not groundbreaking.
Doug Camplejohn
(13:08)
Especially with AI startups.
Andy Mowat
(13:29)
I recently discussed this over dinner: while new ideas are exciting, the larger vendors soon incorporate similar features. The results can be impressive, yet selling these products becomes challenging once the novelty wears off.
Doug Camplejohn
(14:06)
What made it through, and what didn’t?
Andy Mowat
(14:14)
There are compelling use cases in sales enablement. For example, enabling reps to practice via innovative video pitches or leveraging tools like Glean and Docket for real-time knowledge. But many ideas don’t survive rigorous scrutiny because the differentiation isn’t strong enough.
Doug Camplejohn
(14:54)
Which ones succeeded?
Andy Mowat
(14:56)
I believe in customizable tools like battle cards for diverse sales situations. The approach changes depending on whether you’re selling to a CFO at an established company or a young CEO. Customization is key.
Doug Camplejohn
(15:56)
I’m going to test something you said earlier. The big players tend to simply wait it out.
Andy Mowat
(16:21)
In most cases, yes. Although there are exceptions where we dive deeper—like when we brought Clay into the mix or explored another innovative company with Carta.
Doug Camplejohn
(16:31)
There’s an interesting gap when a new tool can offer an advantage before the big guys move in. When do you see the optimal moment to adopt new solutions rather than wait?
Andy Mowat
(17:16)
Every go-to-market decision hinges on the company’s dynamics. For example, with Clay, we found that while some companies were moving quickly, the risks and costs were higher for rapidly growing companies. At a company growing 140% a year, the aggressive approach might be viable, but for others, a more measured strategy works best.
Decisions depend on the stage and growth rate of the company. For instance, enterprise security at larger companies, with sensitive financial data, requires a more cautious approach. At smaller companies, cost-effective solutions might suffice.
SOC 2 compliance is another example. For a small team, getting SOC 2 early is a cost of doing business. At Carta, it took years due to the complexity, but for most startups, it’s now a standard practice.
Doug Camplejohn
(19:09)
Absolutely. With many companies maintaining a security-first posture, it’s interesting to see how practices evolve as companies scale.
Andy Mowat
(19:54)
Today, most startups complete SOC 2 compliance early. We even managed it at Gated, streamlining the process significantly.
Doug Camplejohn
(20:38)
I think it sets the pace for all future operations rather than dealing with complications later on.
Andy Mowat
(21:08)
Exactly. Early adoption simplifies scaling later.
Doug Camplejohn
(21:15)
Switching gears, how do you see AI disrupting the go-to-market world? While some predict short-term impacts like AI SDRs, where do you believe AI can be most transformative?
Andy Mowat
(21:33)
AI will change everything. I’ve been studying it and speaking with companies pioneering innovative solutions. The entire B2B tech stack will be rebuilt. Current applications, such as Salesforce, are clunky and restrictive. I’ve experienced painful limitations firsthand. However, AI promises a future where every function has a custom-built, efficient user experience driven by intelligent insights.
Imagine AI advising on where to take action, automating routine decisions, and even replacing some jobs. At Whisper, as a one-person company supported by contractors, I use AI to research and evaluate every executive that comes on board.
Doug Camplejohn
(23:32)
Some suggest building for where models will be in the future rather than where they are today.
Andy Mowat
(23:49)
I’ve heard many CEOs say they’re not worried about AI compute costs because those costs will drop dramatically over time.
Doug Camplejohn
(24:04)
Microsoft’s co-pilot branding was smart—implying it’s a tool for assistance rather than a full replacement. What functions do you see moving to autopilot versus remaining as a co-pilot?
Andy Mowat
(24:41)
Using the Tesla versus Waymo example: Waymo removed the driver altogether, learning quickly from real-world data, while Tesla continues to require human intervention. In operations, I personally prefer reviews; even if an AI drafts an email, a human should give the final approval. Yet, in support, fully automated systems—like Zendesk’s—are becoming impressively efficient.
Doug Camplejohn
(26:05)
I also believe customer success will see many standardized, tech-driven approaches for lower-value deals, while high-value deals will still need a personal touch.
Andy Mowat
(26:06)
Exactly. At Box, for example, we used product data to drive customer interactions for our smallest customers. The line between automated and personal outreach will continue to blur as the technology advances.
Outbound remains a personal touch. Many companies are trying AI SDRs, but the results aren’t promising. I’ve spoken with several who turned the solution off quickly.
Marketing, however, has significant AI potential—especially in content creation, video production, and rep enablement. Over the next three to five years, expect massive changes.
Doug Camplejohn
(28:18)
We previously discussed how a flawed outbound process remains flawed regardless of the tool. I’m a fan of self-serve customer support. In our company, Intercom handles nearly 95% of support calls with AI, which is impressive.
Andy Mowat
(29:10)
Two weeks ago, I set up a system that channels all my writing and podcast content into an automated clone. Now, when someone asks about my career, they get directed to “my clone.” It’s still early days, but it’s effective.
Doug Camplejohn
(29:32)
That’s interesting.
Andy Mowat
(29:39)
It even funnels prospects through a qualification process. Several people have already paid for this service in the first week.
Doug Camplejohn
(30:17)
I’ve also heard about virtual versions of guests, like with Amanda’s company One Mind and their virtual Jacco. It’s a trend to let people self-serve until they need human interaction.
Andy Mowat
(30:50)
Absolutely. We’re still in the early days of understanding these changes. In the future, self-service will cover many functions before human assistance is required. I liken it to the Pets.com era—early hype that eventually settled into practical use.
Doug Camplejohn
(31:15)
You’ve talked before about the difficulty of switching off from systems like Salesforce and HubSpot when so many integrations are involved. How do you see that transition, given all the innovation?
Andy Mowat
(31:42)
It’s not the deep tech that’s the challenge; it’s the integrations. You can export your entire Salesforce schema, but moving everything is more complicated. That’s why I invested in Ampersand. They’re revolutionizing GTM integrations. The vendors often push cumbersome, Zapier-like solutions, but Ampersand offers custom integration that truly fits the needs of a complex system.
Doug Camplejohn
(32:07)
Very similar. Yep.
Andy Mowat
(32:10)
They’re addressing Salesforce’s limitations by providing customizable integration options. If you need a tailored approach, speaking with Ampersand is worthwhile.
Doug Camplejohn
(32:35)
We’re big fans of Ampersand. The pace of building sophisticated SaaS applications has accelerated significantly thanks to open source and strong integration partners.
Andy Mowat
(33:03)
I just saw their new release—webhooks for Salesforce that allow change detection rather than simple read/write. That’s game-changing.
Doug Camplejohn
(33:16)
Hugely powerful.
Andy Mowat
(33:25)
I’m excited about what the future holds.
Doug Camplejohn
(33:30)
To wrap up, let’s talk personal. If you could have AI automate one thing in your life—not necessarily business-related—what would it be?
Andy Mowat
(34:11)
I’d love for AI to fully automate my data collection—from basic company details to more nuanced information during a company’s early stage. It would intelligently scrape data to verify key details like SOC 2 compliance. However, setting that up is complex. There are companies working to make it a push-button experience.
Doug Camplejohn
(35:35)
Are you referring to Clay or are there other companies in this space?
Andy Mowat
(35:45)
I’m referring to several solutions, including Clay, which specializes in data scraping and automation.
Doug Camplejohn
(35:45)
What are you passionate about that might surprise people?
Andy Mowat
(35:56)
Most people know I’m passionate about Keanu. I even bought the domain keanu.actor. I also love helping people with their careers—a passion that now shines through with Whisper.
Doug Camplejohn
(36:21)
That’s awesome. And on a personal note, what is one daily routine you can’t live without?
Andy Mowat
(36:27)
I take a walk every day. During my final months at Carta, I began this practice and now I make it a priority. It helps me reset and prepare for the day.
Doug Camplejohn
(36:50)
I once met an investor who managed two companies by getting eight hours of sleep, daily exercise, and meditation. When he put his devices aside at night, his routine set him up for success. I do something similar—bed by 9 or 10 p.m., a power walk, a shower—and by the time I’m at work, my day is already structured.
Andy Mowat
(37:38)
That’s great. I no longer type out lengthy messages on LinkedIn. Instead, I send voice notes to respond quickly—keeping things efficient.
I can walk and record 20 voice notes rapidly, freeing me from being tied to my desk.
Doug Camplejohn
(38:16)
That’s a great hack. Thank you for sharing. Finally, how can people connect with you and support your mission?
Andy Mowat
(38:23)
They can visit whispered.com. We are transforming how confidential job search information is shared. If someone knows of an unposted role, they can start whispering about it there. Share Whispered with your favorite talent partner, investor, or recruiter. And if you’re looking for your next career opportunity, check out Whispered—but please don’t send a blank LinkedIn invite. You can also find me through my Linktree on LinkedIn to explore all the ways to collaborate.
Doug Camplejohn
(39:11)
That’s awesome, Andy. It’s been a fantastic conversation. Thank you for taking the time today. Take care.
Andy Mowat
(39:17)
Thanks, Doug.
