Doug Camplejohn
(00:02)
Hey, welcome everyone. This is Doug Camplejohn and this is Revenue Renegades. Today I’m very excited about our guest Adam Robinson. If you haven’t heard of Adam, you probably haven’t been on LinkedIn in a while. He is a bold founder building in public, and I’m excited to dig into RB2B and his efforts. Welcome Adam.
Adam
(00:27)
Thank you for having me as a founding guest on your show. I’m honored, and I’m glad you’re doing it regardless of what comes from it. This stuff has served me well, and starting a podcast opens up many possibilities. Early-stage startups benefit by giving people an opportunity to listen, observe, and learn what you stand for. It’s our only advantage over the big guys, who simply can’t.
Doug Camplejohn
(01:08)
Thank you. You inspired me to get off my ass and start posting on LinkedIn a few months ago. That has turned from a chore into an enjoyable exercise. This podcast is the next adventure in the Coffee Media empire.
Adam
(01:27)
Can we talk about that for a second? I now view it as a creative outlet. When I started working with Alec, I went from not writing posts at all to writing full posts, with Alec making a light edit here and there. I hated writing these posts and it took forever. But yesterday, after leaving the office at 5:35, having written four posts, I felt a tremendous buzz of satisfaction—different from the feeling after endless Zoom calls or even closing a deal. When you create content you believe in, it’s a powerful benefit.
Doug Camplejohn
(02:57)
Everyone has their own voice. I’ve been finding mine. Initially, with the mission of Coffee, I planned a series on CRM history, AI, and CRM challenges. But I discovered that being vulnerable and sharing personal struggles created real engagement—a community connection that meant more than any polished series.
Adam
(03:45)
You nailed it. My view is that posting on LinkedIn is relatively insulated from competition. Few in my position can be that vulnerable about their business. For instance, a startup with $25M ARR wouldn’t openly critique its own business. I even discuss business with my wife, who understands and runs her own company. I want our employees to know what I dislike about our business. Most people experience more hardship than success—I only realized how hard it was when things started looking up.
Doug Camplejohn
(06:20)
How do you keep generating ideas? Do you just write what comes to mind, or do you keep a list of future topics?
Adam
(06:32)
If you aim to be a prolific content creator as a CEO, you must see yourself as a media brand. Every conversation is potential content. I developed content pillars—one is sharing work in public, another was on the future of go-to-market strategies (asserting that predictable revenue is dead), and another contrasts bootstrapping with VC. Each appeals to a different audience. I eventually replaced the go-to-market pillar since AI has changed the landscape. For example, Preston—the founder of Chubbies—explained that building enterprise value through brand marketing is the long game, not just chasing clicks.
I believe it’s misleading because many tech products simply get in the way of what would happen anyway. A visitor clicks a LinkedIn ad, and then you calculate that LinkedIn generated signups at a low cost—yet the entire calculus is flawed.
You’re optimizing around it. Frankly, it’s all nonsense. There’s an industry of marketers whose livelihoods depend on these numbers, and it’s absurd to tie employment to such arbitrary metrics.
Doug Camplejohn
(10:01)
Everybody’s done this, right?
Adam
(10:03)
I was spending about $100,000 a month on various marketing channels in November. Then we experienced a wave of churn because we were promoting the product the wrong way. I turned everything off until we figured out a better approach. Many marketers, evaluated solely on click-through rates, would have preferred to disable a channel—but as the sole founder of a profitable business, I didn’t mind a temporary shrink if it meant doing it right. We were flat for a few weeks and then grew 10% in January with a hundred thousand dollars less spent.
It’s odd—if I take a polarizing stance and commit to brand marketing exclusively, I won’t pay for a single ad. Instead, I’ll rely on content like our weekly show. I’m even exploring direct mail with Sendoso. It may be impossible to measure, but it reinforces that chasing dashboard numbers is a flawed strategy when so many other factors are at play.
Adam
(12:13)
For 2025, my content pillar is clear: performance marketing must stop. Brand marketing is the only way, and I intend to be the one who makes that statement.
Because everyone else is forced to measure every little detail, but brand value isn’t easily measured except over time. My decisions are strategic, based on content that truly breaks through.
Doug Camplejohn
(13:08)
Yeah. If you’re in it long enough to show that after dropping a $100,000 spend you recover, others might finally experiment and prove their approach. It’s an interesting pillar for this year.
Adam
(13:35)
I think so too. Everyone is being pushed toward dashboards.
Doug Camplejohn
(13:41)
They have VCs.
Doug Camplejohn
(13:46)
So, what about your founding story? People love those. You had Retention.com, then you started RB2B. Tell me about the spark of that idea, and how you handle suddenly crowded markets.
Adam
(14:27)
My first startup was an email newsletter app. We were poaching customers from Constant Contact by extracting lead information and calling them with a better offer. That got us to 3 million, but it was a double-edged sword. Constant Contact is broad—I would never recommend launching broadly. Instead, you should dominate a tiny niche and then expand. We built a cashflow-positive business over three years, but once our channel dried up, we couldn’t compete with MailChimp, whose free product outpaced our paid one. MailChimp moved faster and spent billions on advertising free services.
Adam
(14:27)
MailChimp made it nearly impossible for small players to grow. Then Klaviyo emerged, latching onto Shopify. Back then, Shopify was worth under $100 million; now it’s $150 billion. They were the perfect solution for Shopify at that time. There are many factors, but that’s the gist of it.
Adam
(16:21)
I would tell my younger self what a woman at Litmus once said: “Focus on solving a problem in email that hasn’t been solved yet.” That was an elegant piece of advice.
Doug Camplejohn
(16:49)
Well put.
Adam
(16:49)
When deciding what to build, you can niche down by resegmenting the market—serve an underserved segment with fewer features but greater value. That’s how Klaviyo started: with fewer features than MailChimp yet charging double because they targeted more valuable customers.
Adam
(18:01)
I was open to change—I was stuck. I realized there was a big market of affiliate email senders who would use this, even if it violated CAN-SPAM rules. I looked into CAN-SPAM enforcement; it wasn’t significant. Then I discovered it was legal. I believe I can sell this to anyone with a website, though I didn’t know how to implement it technically.
People signed up for our newsletter app, used the ID feature, downloaded a file, and imported it into Klaviyo. It was so effective that they began using Klaviyo exclusively.
Adam
(19:36)
They wouldn’t use the rest of the newsletter app. It became clear that growing the app was a poor strategy. It would have been better to spin it out and integrate it with other systems. That feature, called Get Emails and now known as retention.com, took us nearly three years to find the right buyer. It ultimately resonated with top Shopify merchants—targeting around a thousand of the two million Shopify stores—and then expanded to omnichannel retailers. In SaaS, lowering churn is critical. When a large retailer like American Eagle adopts your solution, they spend months vetting and integrating it, and it lasts for a decade. With smaller clients, an extra $100 per month can make a huge difference.
Adam
(21:23)
I saw that we were facing an awareness problem. It looked like the solution was working for everyone, but penetration was low. In 2022, I realized that building a personal social media profile was the answer. I wasn’t active on social media personally—which is unusual for someone who now creates prolific LinkedIn content. I noticed that posts about working in public always performed best, especially those highlighting the struggles many B2B SaaS founders faced in 2023. Some posts got hundreds of times more engagement than usual, so I dedicated a month—starting Labor Day 2023—to writing exclusively about B2B. The first three posts garnered thousands of likes, compared to my usual 30 to 50. I knew then I had something special.
Adam
(22:52)
We went from zero to 4 million ARR with RB2B, and now we’re nearly at 4.7 million ARR with a team of five. It’s remarkable. God bless America. Unlike my earlier struggles, our model is now easy to reverse-engineer, and many others have adopted similar strategies.
Adam
(23:22)
Last year, we sold a service that involved placing a human in front of a noisy Slack channel to solve problems—a workflow many find too challenging. Now, many companies are building platforms because their VCs insist that enterprise value comes from platforms. I see a convergence: signals from AI content generation to activation. On one side, there’s Clay—a low-code engineering platform connected to go-to-market data that lets you rebuild almost any SaaS platform (if you want, though you could also misstep). On the other, you can choose to do nothing. My strategy is to build workflows into existing CRMs like HubSpot and Salesforce, offering clear signals without an additional platform while telling a compelling brand story. After all, marketers—not salespeople—make these buying decisions.
Adam
(25:45)
We’ll see how it goes. A great success would be reaching 7 to 8 million ARR by the end of the year—maybe even 10 if we nail it—all without adding new team members. I aim for a million ARR per employee, with 40 people in total.
Adam
(26:16)
We have 40 people, along with ARR and cost-per-lead deals where major clients pay $30–$50K a month. Our run-rate revenue is around 30 million ARR with 40 people. My goal is to reach 40 employees in 18 months—that would truly validate me as an entrepreneur.
Doug Camplejohn
(26:46)
It’s interesting because you’re already running incredibly lean by VC standards—thanks to bootstrapping and having the right team. I’ve also heard you mention that AI might displace even more headcount. How do you see that fitting into your strategy?
Adam
(27:19)
We’re using AI mostly for support—answering many tickets via Intercom workflows. It handles a ton, but I still receive messages from people who want to talk to a human.
Doug Camplejohn
(27:47)
Yeah, we’re not there yet.
Adam
(27:51)
Sometimes, users should be able to bypass the AI and speak directly to a person. I haven’t solved that yet. I understand why Jeff Bezos is so excited about AI; with 300,000 employees, many do repetitive work. I’m impressed that AI can perform in 10 minutes what might take an associate a week. My lean team isn’t 300,000 strong, but I want my salespeople to research companies faster—even though AI isn’t ready for outreach if your total addressable market is small. It’s crucial for a salesperson to recognize when a target account has engaged deeply with your content. Also, one thing we got wrong last year was selling booked demos—if your product’s success depends solely on booking demos from website visitors, it’s doomed.
Adam
(30:38)
We discussed AI taking over repetitive tasks, yet still needing human creativity. I can’t recall the name of the gentleman who handles support for you, but his work is impressive.
Doug Camplejohn
(30:51)
It’s interesting—we talked about AI stripping away repetitive tasks while still needing human oversight.
Doug Camplejohn
(31:21)
Rob, right. And by the way, what do you use? It’s incredible, though I get annoyed when even one in 300 customers says, “This is terrible.”
Doug Camplejohn
(31:35)
Yeah, but it’s still amazing. There’s fierce competition in customer service. I’ve been impressed with Intercom and their FinAI. It’s not perfect, but you can see the path forward.
Doug Camplejohn
(32:00)
I prefer to resolve issues via AI rather than navigating a clunky IVR system. I don’t want to escalate a problem all the way to the CEO.
Adam
(32:15)
Exactly.
Adam
(32:29)
And I find Intercom fascinating. On its own, it’s impressive. Fin, as a standalone product, might not have gained traction—but combined with Intercom, it fits perfectly. Trying to integrate it with another support platform wouldn’t work as well. I don’t have data, but it just makes sense.
Doug Camplejohn
(33:09)
Many companies are bolting AI onto their products, resulting in Frankenstein solutions that hit local maximums. Intercom has taken a more cohesive approach.
Adam
(33:15)
Mm-hmm.
Doug Camplejohn
(33:33)
I haven’t tried tools like Brett Taylor’s Sierra, but I see deep research coming from Perplexity and OpenAI—tools that help build account plans, conduct research, or prep for meetings. It almost feels like having your own chief of staff. Still, I doubt you’ll go from 40 employees to one overnight.
Adam
(34:10)
Do you think that’s a consensus view, or do some believe that a tool like Clay could handle an entire BDR operation?
Doug Camplejohn
(34:17)
I think many assume Clay can do everything, but that’s just part of the conversation.
Adam
(34:24)
Many claim Clay can handle every aspect of a BDR operation, but it really shines with LinkedIn content—which is why there’s so much buzz around it.
Doug Camplejohn
(34:35)
Yeah, listen. Clay is a powerful tool for power users, but it’s not the end-all solution. Look at all the investments in AI for SDRs—automated prospecting often promises more than it delivers. The pitch might sound attractive, but the reality is different.
Adam
(34:59)
I agree.
Doug Camplejohn
(35:06)
They claim you can spend less and be five times more productive, but that promise isn’t there yet. It might improve down the line, though.
Adam
(35:22)
Maybe, right? These models are very good at conversing—it’s hard to tell if you’re speaking to a person. But I haven’t heard a single positive story about an AI SDR. Once that option is available, it’s already obsolete. You need a completely different approach to break through.
Doug Camplejohn
(35:40)
Maybe Operator.ai?
Adam
(37:12)
Tell Mark I said hi. We had a great exchange. When we coordinated on LinkedIn, things started off poorly until I reached out directly. He agreed, and it worked out well.
Doug Camplejohn
(37:14)
I will.
Adam
(37:42)
But Mark’s the man. I love that. It surprises me that the obvious use case for AI was in SDR functions. Of course, these tools eventually get blocked—engineers work hard to stop robotic outreach because no one wants to receive robotic messages.
Doug Camplejohn
(38:23)
It’s actually funny. I was with a couple of security companies, and it’s like a whack-a-mole game: each side develops a new technique while the other races to block it. It’s similar to trying to capture attention while filtering out unwanted noise.
Adam
(38:45)
Yep.
Doug Camplejohn
(38:52)
We’ve all developed a sixth sense. We can tell when an email is spam or AI-generated without extra technology.
Adam
(39:04)
Yeah. And that’s a business I’m glad I didn’t raise a hundred million in VC. I was scheduled to have the 11x AI CEO on my show two weeks ago, but he canceled. Why cancel on a show with great questions?
Doug Camplejohn
(39:25)
I don’t know—he’ll get good questions regardless.
Adam
(39:26)
I can’t imagine it, as you have so many compelling case studies to share.
Doug Camplejohn
(39:34)
Who do you admire in go-to-market? You’re crushing the founder-led brand approach—who else impresses you?
Adam
(39:50)
I believe companies with strong word-of-mouth are most effective—especially in early stages. True product–market fit is built on that foundation. Founder-led content on LinkedIn is straightforward if you can do it. Some coordinate influencers to promote their products, but that requires a high-quality product built with years of experience. I’ve seen others try to copy that model, but they can’t match the meticulous approach of the originals. Unfortunately, that didn’t work for us with the Clay ecosystem. However, when Clay supports Legion agencies through word-of-mouth, everyone wins.
Adam
(41:34)
Nathan Latka is interesting. He followed his founder path, invests in debt financing, and his go-to-market strategy includes hosting numerous 20-minute podcast interviews and a monthly live show.
Adam
(42:03)
I also saw what Chris Parker was doing—and now we run a weekly live show. Nathan’s show has excellent engagement. He may not run a SaaS, but he’s become one of the biggest SaaS content creators with a huge audience.
Doug Camplejohn
(42:06)
I’ve watched it.
Adam
(42:31)
He also hosts virtual events. He and I share the view that if you create content your target audience chooses to consume, regardless of what you’re selling, you can’t compete with that through paid ads. The engagement is on a completely different level.
Doug Camplejohn
(43:19)
Nathan’s content is like a fire hose. Every session is valuable—he asks a few key questions like “What’s your ARR?” and qualifies you, generating great leads without a hard sell.
Adam
(43:54)
His show rate is much better than mine. I tried doing a weekly show but couldn’t decide if it was worth the effort, so I went back to my previous format.
Doug Camplejohn
(44:10)
For those unfamiliar, what do you mean by “show rate”? How many people actually attend?
Adam
(44:15)
Show rate is the percentage of signups that attend. He claims about 40%, while we’re at around 25%. I can’t even imagine how many signups he receives.
Doug Camplejohn
(44:20)
Okay, got it.
Doug Camplejohn
(44:33)
What does that translate to in weekly attendance? How many people show up?
Adam
(44:40)
I’ve been on two of his shows—one had about 250 attendees, and another had over 500 when he invited West Bush and Guillaume from Lemlist. I can’t imagine the total signups he gets.
Adam
(45:21)
We consistently have 200 to 400 actual attendees each week, which is impressive. We put a lot of work into it—even though early on I was told that no one wants to listen to unstructured, free-flow conversation. There must be a clear structure with a host, a guest, and defined topics, even if it’s live. It’s hard to measure, but I believe it’s a key part of our brand.
Doug Camplejohn
(46:35)
Alright, to wrap up—if AI could automate one annoying task in your personal or professional life, what would it be?
Adam
(46:57)
The only task I can think of is business-related. The ideal use of LLM technology is to process contextual information about a website visitor and offer a rep actionable options.
Doug Camplejohn
(47:38)
What’s something you’re passionate about that might surprise people?
Adam
(47:45)
It might not surprise you, but I live in Austin, Texas, and I used to wakesurf frequently—I even had a boat. Since my first child, I haven’t been able to do it as much.
Wake surfing gives you an immediate emotional reset—even a short session can change your state entirely.
Doug Camplejohn
(48:29)
We have a place in Tahoe, and I’m excited to go wake surfing this summer for the first time.
What’s one thing you can’t live without in your daily routine?
Adam
(48:46)
Coffee. That’s essential.
Doug Camplejohn
(48:49)
I love that. How can people stay in touch with you? How can they help you?
Adam
(48:53)
Connect with me on LinkedIn. Let me know what you think of my content or what I should cover next—I’m always looking for feedback.
Doug Camplejohn
(49:10)
Fantastic, Adam. I could talk for hours, but I appreciate your insights today. The listeners will too. Thank you.
Adam
(49:23)
You’re welcome. I’m glad you’re getting started with this—it will open doors to more opportunities, whether it’s a larger podcast or not.
